Search Engine Optimization

Greg · #1 (**permalink**) 12-12-2005, 05:04 PM

I have a question Erik or anyone available. I am learning more about Search Engine Optimization.

Is an inbound link to your site someone linking to you or you linking to them?

Erik · #2 (**permalink**) 12-12-2005, 05:23 PM

Link coming "in" to your site. These are also commonly called backlinks.

Greg · #3 (**permalink**) 12-12-2005, 06:31 PM

Noticed this site comes up on msn now.

Page rank 0 though.

Erik · #4 (**permalink**) 12-13-2005, 07:49 AM

Page rank won't change until Google's next Page rank update, which probably won't happen for at least a month or two since the last update just barely completed. That won't keep the site from ranking on Google or the other engines, though

Secret! · #5 (**permalink**) 12-13-2005, 10:55 AM

As you may have noticed on our website Greg, I personally happen to teach our Website & Internet Originations Live Class, so I have some interest in this topic.

As it so happens Search Engine Optimization is not something which I address in this class I have been holding for going on 3 year snow; it's generally a waste of time. There are far more predictible methods to attract site visitors than SEO - those are where I focus.

Presently your website on any major search engine (for example Google), is ranked (on the singular search term "mortgage") on page 13,847. You can hire a dozen Search Engine Optimization experts and your site will be UP to rank 6,813 ... so what?

Erik · #6 (**permalink**) 12-13-2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secret!

it's generally a waste of time.

I have to disagree with you on this one, Secret. Search Engine Optimization can be a waste of time if it's done without the proper goals and perspective, but by no means is it a complete waste of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secret!

There are far more predictible methods to attract site visitors than Search Engine Optimization - those are where I focus.

I agree with this - there are more "predictable" methods for generating traffic, but not necessarily more "effective". If you can rank highly on a search engine for keywords that have decent search volume, you can attract more visitors with less effort and less expense over time than by any other means available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secret!

Presently your website on any major search engine (for example Google), is ranked (on the singular search term "mortgage") on page 13,847. You can hire a dozen Search Engine Optimization experts and your site will be UP to rank 6,813 ... so what?

"So what" is right in this case. But what about the ranking for "Ohio Mortgage Broker" or "Ohio Loan Officer"? A common misunderstanding when it comes to Search Engine Optimization is that the only way it will make a difference is if you make the top 10 for a very broad search term like "mortgage" or "real estate". However, more specific terms have a lot of search volume as well, and a top 10 ranking for any of those would get a website a lot of traffic.

For example:

Term > Searches per day
ohio mortgage broker > 25
cleveland ohio mortgage broker > 22
columbus ohio mortgage broker > 36
ohio mortgage > 198
akron ohio mortgage > 102

That's just a sample one a single search network (yahoo). Google has 4x more traffic than yahoo so you can quadruple those numbers for search volume on the big G.

So suppose you rank for specific terms like those above, resulting in daily visitors of only 90 or so. Well, if you got an app from just 1% of your daily search visitors, would Search Engine Optimization then be worth it? Definitely.

My $0.02

Greg · #7 (**permalink**) 12-13-2005, 01:22 PM

I spent 6 hours last night re-doing my Search Engine Optimization since the changed my URL when New Century bought us.

Many of my changes have not taken place yet.

I used a keyword tool that tracked monthly and annual key word searches.

But now that Erik brings up the less popular searches and Secret says my site is on page 12000 for "Mortgage" I might have to re-think my Search Engine Optimization strategy.

When I had my RBC site I generated 6.37 apps per week from visitors. I made up my own unique keywords.

My page has had (and the RBC figures transferred) 15,945 hits ytd.

With that much opportunity and not paying a dime for my Search Engine Optimization I like the results.

Just 1 leg of the stool though.

In the end I averaged 2.45 closings per month as of the end of 11/05 off of my cold internet applications.

Amazing thing is not very many of them were shoppers like I expected. I would say less than 5% were!

Secret what is one of the biggest items you teach in your internet classes that you think is the most non-negotiable?

Feel free to PM it if you want. I know that is "privileged" information

Secret! · #8 (**permalink**) 12-14-2005, 11:10 AM

1). All across major search engines these are top search terms for quite sometime now: mortgage, refinance, bill consolidation, home equity loan, money, bank, debt consolidation, home improvement loan.
2). You would think that Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Washington Mutual; Countrywide grasp the wisdom (?) of Search Engine Optimization and that they would have some pretty good web people working for them, right? People far more skilled than the readers here (surely better than me, that's for sure).
3). Test my point: plug in these search terms on a half dozen search engines you select at random, and see how many times you see these lenders anywhere on page one. Those results will validate whether Search Engine Optimization works or not.

I trust you'll agree with me that YOU personally don't look beyond page one when you search for anything on the Internet, and neither do I. NOT trying to slam anybody, but the Search Engine Optimization activity is generally a fantasy for mortgage originators to pay too much attention to. I'm quite passionate about this issue, since I teach a live class on Website & Internet Originations (and have for almost 3 years) ... and I personally have closed/funded more than 2,200 loans that came to our (former broker/lender) website from various Internet marketing notions I teach in this class ... so from a real world standpoint, I feel I have some credibility on this topic - and I surely know I don't know nearly as much as many folk about tech stuff, just real world stuff

Erik · #9 (**permalink**) 12-14-2005, 01:07 PM

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Secret. Your three listed points don't prove anything in my mind because it assumes that those major lenders are the only ones Search Engine Optimization-ing for those broad terms and that they must have the best talent available with the most understanding of how to SEO. Those are hardly safe assumptions to make.

If anything, your argument only proves that big companies who fail to achieve top 10 results for the most broad of terms in their industry don't have any idea what it takes to be successful at Search Engine Optimization, and/or don't care.

But, they do care. How do I know? They're all paying big bucks to have their ad listed on the first page of results for those terms, along with LendingTree, QuickenLoans, and whoever else is willing to pay several dollars per click. Don't you think they covet a top 10 spot? They do.

No, your three points won't tell us if Search Engine Optimization works or not. Looking at the top 10 results of a broad term like those you have listed WILL tell us who is the best at SEO. Looking at search engine traffic trends for a particular website before and after SEO campaigns will tell us if SEO works, and how well that campaign has worked. There are literally billions of searches performed every month across the web and it doesn't require a mortgage company to have a top 10 listing for "mortgage" to make SEO worthwhile. In fact, going after a top 10 listing for any of the broad terms you listed would be the last strategy I'd undertake or suggest to anyone who wasn't a huge company like those you listed.

"Mortgage", for example, returns over 90 million results in Google. The top 10 are definitely the best at Search Engine Optimization for that particular term. (Wells Fargo does happen to be #4 right now)

I'm sure that the marketing techniques you teach also work, but that doesn't mean Search Engine Optimization doesn't.

Greg · #10 (**permalink**) 12-14-2005, 02:15 PM

This have evolved into a great debate.

Secret I agree with this statement

Quote:

but the Search Engine Optimization activity is generally a fantasy for mortgage originators to pay too much attention to

Most have no idea and try to but lose so much time over it they get no where and get nothing.

But if you concentrate on the less popular search keywords you could be on that first page. It would not take too much to make it happen. Maybe no money at all.